|
Post by the Unsound Sky on May 16, 2016 22:59:13 GMT -6
UPDATE
VOW IS DONE FOR.
That was the only thought running through my mind this past week. It may not have seemed like it for most of you, but behind the scenes we were a hot fuckin' mess. Quite frankly, the last couple events have been, well... hell. Sloppy, disorganized, late. We've been... not all there. All of us. Slater and I have work. If you've noticed a particular long bit of absence from me, it's because I'm working on becoming a manager at my store AND trying to get myself a car finally. Owen's still in school and has to focus on that. Ryan's not fully back and also has quite a bit on his plate. It's real life shit that always burdens this game.
And yet... we kicked ourselves in the ass, got results posted (mostly...), and came up with a game plan. Now you all might be wondering why I've decided to post about this...
One: We want to include the members, our community, in things like this. If we're suffering, we're not going to hide it. Because it's not fair for you guys to think things are okay and then find out later on, after it's already affected you, that it actually wasn't.
Two: The 'State of VoW' has looked rather meek lately. This thread was originally created to reiterate rules, guidelines, and what we've done and wanted to continue to do. And this post is no different. Just a bit more serious.
So here's the gist of it: match writing is a killer for us. We're even still waiting on a couple matches for the last event. That's a PROBLEM. A BIG... problem. So... we'll be including less matches on cards (no more than 8 at the very most)... while also incorporating a loose word limit. So... when you take a match (and please, I IMPLORE you to... because at this point, we're fucked if we don't get match writers), we'll give you the winner and give you your limit based on the rps written.
Now as an example of this... say it's a singles match and one person didn't show. That match should only hit ab 1k (without entrances), as long as the other person had a good showing. If it's a tag match and all showed, it'd probably hit around 2-3k. The max for Breakthrough would be 3k. For PPVs, it's free fuckin' game. But we don't want to start summarizing our results. It's always been one of the great things about us-- our in-depth, detailed, well written results. So we'll simply throw a limit at match writers. It'll be easier on those who take matches, as well as hopefully help with getting things written quicker and more efficiently.
There's also a limit on segments now. We love creativity but you don't need to put every thought on your opponent in one segment (that's sorta what rps are for), nor do you need to have 3-4k segs. The limit is a loose 2k (figuring HIGH). These limits are being put in place so we can get things in quicker, ON TIME, and not have to worry ab putting in thousands upon thousands of words into things.
Now, as it's been said time and time again... do not. Take. A match. If you cannot. Commit. Because once you do and then give it up for whatever reason, we end up having to try to cover it and sometimes that doesn't happen-- thus we end up with blank spots on results. Problem we keep having is people take things, then wait until the very last minute to start these things and then something comes up. Then they can't write it. Now of course, you can't help if something happens, and I'll never fault you for it. But if there's a possibility, or if there are circumstances that are looking bad, etc... we would rather you not take the match (for your own sake and the fed's). That said, for those who take matches and don't get them into us... if it's done more than once, we'll simply disallow you from taking a match. While we need the help... DESPERATELY... we also know that someone who can't commit to it isn't exactly "help".
We now have an organized group to help things run smoothly, we have one of the VoW FOUNDERS 'returning' to some degree to help (everybody say 'oh hi Steve'), and we've made a few other plans here and there to possibly keep things going here in VoW. But at this point... we need all the help we can get from you guys. Keep the boards active, take what you CAN (anyone who takes a match gets a cookie and 69 thank yous), and stay positive! We're still moving along, despite the rocky road we happened to have turned onto. And hopefully it stays that way. So feel free to respond to this, give us your thoughts or ideas or opinions or to tell me to STFU and make you a sammich... as long as you read this and know that we... that I haven't given up yet.
|
|
|
Post by Valerie Beasley on May 17, 2016 0:01:39 GMT -6
I think putting a word limit on matches will help. I know from experience. I am a match writer for another fed that I am currently in and we have a word limit in place at the beginning. This might be just a suggestion but maybe you could have a match writer's section so you the match writers can share things.
I would take matches here but I'm still learning all of the stars on the roster. However, I love VoW so I might get into helping more where I can.
|
|
|
Post by Kelsey Spencer on May 17, 2016 0:04:09 GMT -6
I have a few ideas that could help out. They probably won't be popular ideas, but I guess it doesn't hurt to put them out there.
Why don't we work together with our opponents to write our matches? I mean, we're already collaborating on segments, role plays and storylines, and with these word limits for segments and matches coming into effect, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, right? If we're writing our own matches, everyone will know ahead of time who's writing what, and there's no more confusion.
Results go up on Thursday, right? Why not have the promo deadline on the Saturday before, and then Saturday through to Wednesday is Segment/Match writing? If you wanna have that surprise element still in there (particularly for title matches and stuff), we could just send in an open-ended match and the admins can simply add the ending to it. If we get everything in by Wednesday, that gives the admins Wednesday and Thursday to piece together the show, post it, and then roll out a fresh card on Friday to start the process all over again.
We could even have a few cards booked in advance, so a Breakthrough doesn't need to be changed a bunch of times because people can't promo that week; they'll be able to see what they're doing, and see if it conflicts with their schedule. I know that doesn't account for random issues happening in our personal lives, but honestly, I don't think that's something that can be fixed.
I think that could really fix the issue of matches not being written/sent in on time. We're sharing the workload evenly in a way that doesn't really increase the amount we have to write (because of shorter/less segments). Plus, we get to work together to build our characters and make the show awesome, while making life a heck of a lot simpler and less stressful for the admins.
|
|
|
Post by Owen Gonsalves on May 17, 2016 0:35:52 GMT -6
Tyro/Kelsey, I've got some thoughts on your post so I figure I'll answer/comment on them in sections... This idea is pretty much the exact same idea I pitched a few weeks ago, except with the addition of having a staff member sit in on the conversation to kind've make sure everything sits well in terms of the world of VoW, to just moderate the conversation and pitch ideas of their own if need be. This is similar to how WWE and TNA works in a retrospect where they have an agent work with all participants in a match to come up with the match together. I'm behind this idea however I'm sure there are opposing reasons as to why this could be a idea that isn't going to be good for us, maybe one of the other staff members can discuss those? If one person doesn't agree with the idea then the idea doesn't go in effect, so let's get the thoughts of other members of the fed and staff first. Cards are always booked in advance and kept in the staff boards where staff can overlook them, however as the main booker, I'm not a huge fan of this idea of showing people what their matches are a few weeks in advance. This is essentially just an extension of RPing time that wouldn't be neccesary. Say, if we post these cards ahead of time and Wrestler A notices he's facing Wrestler B next show. Both Wrestler A and B notice they aren't booked up until that show, so now they have an extra 2 weeks or a week ahead of time to RP and at the rate we're going, I don't see that as being neccesary. However, if it is card booking we want fixed, then I CAN suggest possibly stressing more on the communication between members and staff. Let's put this out in the open, I'm the main booker of shows with help from Slater and Nessa, so 9/10 if you don't want to be on a show...simply message me and tell me so. "Cant be booked on the next show", 7 short words. I don't need to know why, but just let me know when you can and cannot be booked. If you haven't been booked for a period of time due to being away, send me a message and let me know that you can be booked on the next card. Letting me know once the card is booked that you can't RP for that week or want to RP for the week is generally what makes for the changes to the cards happening. They're booked in advance and edited all the way up to right before posting if need be, so a simple message can get you off the show if thats your wish. With that being said, we CAN get this train back on it's tracks, we're just going to need all hands on deck, whether it be picking up a match if you noticed it's been a few days and nobody has picked it up, getting your segment in just that little bit earlier, advertising for VoW on social media or in places, greeting new people and answering any questions they may have, giving each other feedback when you've noticed the staff isn't available, posting shit on the boards, all that little stuff helps make the fed a more fun place to be in. We're a community, let's help make this a community environment. We've been going for far too long to call it quits now. Let's all get our shit together folks
|
|
|
Post by Ryder Blade on May 17, 2016 1:23:04 GMT -6
Unpopular opinion time!!
First of all, let me state that I will continue to do what I can to help the fed. I've been guilty of last-minute dropping matches, but I've also TAKEN last-minute dropped matches, so that breaks me even. If this place closes, I have no home fed, so allow me to offer a few pointers.
1. You know what would help lighten the load? SQUASHES. I know we don't do them here, but at certain times, we SHOULD. The way I'd go about deciding if a match is a squash or not is thus: - Did the no-show warn us? YES (no squash) NO (see bullet point 2) - Is this a first time no-show? YES (no squash) NO (squash the shit out of them, then release them)
It may seem cruel, but trust me, a one-sided match takes half the time, and the person who DID bother to respect us enough to drop gets to look like a beast. Everyone wins!
2. I hate doing this myself, but writing the match in advance and just leaving the ending open is supposed to speed up the process, so that could be looked into as well.
3. JOBBER MATCHES. See point 1 above. Same principle(s).
And now to comment on people's ideas:
- Co-writing matches. Ehhhh. Not something I disagree with, but it's usually hard to make sure both guys are even because both are going to want to get their shit in and look strong.
- Word caps. As long as PPV's are still unlimited and I can still write 40 minute clinics between my favourite characters. HOWEVER, beware that Breakthrough doesn't turn into WCW Nitro, where every match was 3-4 minutes and no one had time for anything substantial.
- Less matches. As someone who used to have 9-10 matches on his hands every cycle, I APPROVE. Just be careful not to leave too many people out for too long, or you may accidentally make them think they were released (right, Shane?)
- If need be, do summarise matches. You wouldn't believe how much faster it makes things.
- And finally, if you still see that you can't keep up...close down. It's going to suck for all involved, but sometimes it's the only way to preserve your sanity. I should know. I've been there.
From my end, I'll continue to do everything in my power to make sure we DON'T close - including coming into Staff if I'm allowed and you guys need an extra hand. Otherwise, I'll continue to take matches as time allows, as I have until now.
Long live VoW - the best place I've ever fedded at, late results or not.
|
|
|
Post by Kelsey Spencer on May 17, 2016 4:35:51 GMT -6
I get what you mean with the advanced cards Owen, I didn't really think about it like that.
And Petey, I figured everyone here is mature enough to do what's best for the match. I mean, we can already write our own characters to their detriment in segments to further storylines. Frankly, I enjoy when someone smacks the crap out of my characters, it makes everyone look good.
But hey, if it's not gonna work, forget I said anything guys.
|
|
|
Post by Kelsey Spencer on May 17, 2016 4:37:31 GMT -6
I just figured it would take more than a temporary fix, like more match writers or what ever. Because then it'll just go back to how it was in a month or two from now, you know?
|
|
|
Post by Ryder Blade on May 17, 2016 5:29:26 GMT -6
Not saying it's not going to work, Tyron. More of a cautionary 'been there, seen the consequences' type of comment. Won't say details here but I've seen a situation where letting handlers co-write their own match went extremely wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Naughty Kat on May 17, 2016 5:55:10 GMT -6
Yay! Two cents from the peanut gallery! First, I disagree on the squash/jobber match idea. Squash matches help no one. If people no-show it doesn't help the character who does to be made to look like a beast. I mean it's not that hard to write shots from the other end to make the matches exciting. It's a realistic fed, right? Can anyone recall those early Heidinreich matches? Can anyone recall Heidinreich? Does anyone notice I've been misspelling his name? Jobber matches are the same, they're equivalent to a handler having the week off where they're just forced to write. Like going on vacation but bringing your work phone with you. Secondly, and this is gonna sound rather (beef) jerky (turkey) from someone who doesn't write, but if we don't have the writers then we should limit down to a shorter result format. I know some people like the more fleshed out result format, but if shorter results are what's necessary to keep the place afloat then that's what's needed. I mean if matches were kept to a low limit then I wouldn't mind writing some. I couldn't guarantee all the time but every so often. But aside from that, from a sort of outsider's perspective, I say that in the way that I've only really been around here to post, the place has given the solid vibe of being a nice place. I mean I like it here. No one's yelled at me for being too sexualized with Kat. Not that I've been trying. But yeah, things are looking pretty good. Party on, Joe. ~eat snacky smores~
|
|
|
Post by Kelsey Spencer on May 17, 2016 6:15:20 GMT -6
I know what you mean man, and I get that. I just can't see anyone here being like that, though. Everyone seems laid back and chill, at least as far as I can tell.
|
|
|
Post by Matt Slater on May 17, 2016 11:01:43 GMT -6
I won't go into much detail here, but one idea I did have was to summarize matches that had a no-show in them. Everyone is aware of the result, so therefore there is no surprise factor or interest involved. Now if there was a case where said match did have a storyline element - aka a planned angle interwoven into the match - then I can see a valid reason when writing a match with a no-show would be acceptable (see the recent Winter Pine vs Emma Carlisle match from the last Breakthrough show). With that being said, cards will always be booked in advance, and we do implement a rotational booking system to help keep cards shorter - basically if you have two characters, you will rotate matches between each one, except at PPV's where it is likely they will both be booked, unless otherwise stated. Honestly, there are not many problems with this fed. It all boils down to the results and getting them completely finished on time. What we as the staff need more than anything is members who are open and willing to take matches to help out. That is all we are asking for at this point in time. As far as squashes go, I don't see that happening any time soon. A word limit on matches will greatly help shows get compiled faster, based on the output of RP's. So basically, what this all boils down to is communication during our days doing results, and making sure we keep within the alloted time, ensuring that there is plenty of time for members to RP for the next card. I know sometimes it can seem like work and a hassle, but think positively. Once that little task has been done, you don't have to worry about anything else. You can relax, put your feet up and play another game, or watch Netflix / YouTube / Porn. So it is all hands on deck for results, especially come PPV time, but with word limits being introduced and possible summaries to cut down on time, we should be back to smooth waters eventually and having fun again.
|
|
|
Post by Ryder Blade on May 17, 2016 11:49:46 GMT -6
Yay! Two cents from the peanut gallery! First, I disagree on the squash/jobber match idea. Squash matches help no one. If people no-show it doesn't help the character who does to be made to look like a beast. I mean it's not that hard to write shots from the other end to make the matches exciting. It's a realistic fed, right? Can anyone recall those early Heidinreich matches? Can anyone recall Heidinreich? One word: Goldberg.
|
|
|
Post by thewarchild on May 17, 2016 18:08:35 GMT -6
Yay! Two cents from the peanut gallery! First, I disagree on the squash/jobber match idea. Squash matches help no one. If people no-show it doesn't help the character who does to be made to look like a beast. I mean it's not that hard to write shots from the other end to make the matches exciting. It's a realistic fed, right? Can anyone recall those early Heidinreich matches? Can anyone recall Heidinreich? One word: Goldberg. Which led to Goldberg V Lesnar do you really want that to be your argument?
|
|
|
Post by Owen Gonsalves on May 18, 2016 0:54:57 GMT -6
Let's keep it on topic, folks! Let's put productive ideas in as opposed to debating.
|
|
|
Post by Matt Slater on May 18, 2016 14:34:33 GMT -6
So after some consideration, I completely misjudged my no-show summarization idea. By incorporating that, we'd actually be insulting those who clearly made an effort, and they won't be rewarded with a written match to showcase their character. Therefore, you can scratch that idea from the list.
|
|